Fxpansion.com Forum Index
RegisterSearchFAQ UsergroupsLog in
Reply to topic Page 1 of 2
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Geist design philosophy - a primer for GURU users
Author Message
Reply with quote
Post Geist design philosophy - a primer for GURU users 
New product, new name - what's the difference?

If you've already read the FAQ, you'll understand that while Geist is a spiritual successor to GURU, it is not a direct replacement. If you haven't, please read it first. This post elaborates a little on the design decisions behind Geist.

User feedback on GURU & design challenges

When we began the Geist design and development programme, we talked extensively to users & testers about perceived & actual design flaws in Guru's various versions.

There were two main issues that people reported, time and again:-


* The quality of the individual components that comprise the overall GURU system were not as high as they could and should be.


* The intuitiveness of the interface left a lot to be desired, especially for infrequent users and those looking for a predictable outcome (rather than, shall we way, random exploration in the hope of interesting or inspiring results).


The first point was relatively straightforward - if time consuming - to address. We progressively rebuilt each component to a very much higher standard. So you'll find, for example, a much nicer browser and sequence editor; full undo/redo history; multi threaded loading; DCAM circuit modeled filters and compressors (yep, those filters!); Dirac3 time compression/expansion and pitch shift developed by DSP genius Stephan M. Bernsee; a slicer that uses onset detection & hit classifier tech developed in conjunction with the world-renowned Center for Digital Music at Queen Mary, University of London (QMUL). There are, however, some existing components and much desired new features that could not be (re)built to this standard in time for v1.0 and we will be progressively adding those (obvious examples being full MIDI-implementation remapping, constructive randomization functionality, synthesis and OSC support) as time and resources permit.

The second was more challenging - we had to look at every aspect of the design, every operation, and consider whether they were both intuitive and predictable. There was much discussion in the early design phase as to where the emphasis should be - either in direct usability or in creative exploration and random generation.

However, there's a fundamental problem with algorithmic / generative composition as follows:- to get musical, original results outside of a narrow sonic spectrum, you need to either understand the algorithm (great if you're a Comp Sci Ph.D. and / or Brian Eno, not so great for everyone else) or surrender yourself to not understanding it (at which point you're ceding control of your composition to the computer - or, more accurately, to the people who programmed it). Neither is attractive for most musicians/producers, so we prioritised Geist's design on quickly and musically getting from A to B, rather than A to I-don't-know-let-the-computer-decide. Think of it, if you like, as a vote of confidence by the tool-makers (us) in the tool-users (you) as regards your creative skills - the creative spark has to come from the user, the tool is just that.

So with Geist there is less reliance on modifier keys (difficult to remember for many); less emphasis on (mis)matching the score extracted from one loop against the sounds from another (hard to predict the result; even with state-of-the-art detection / classifcation algorithms you have to roll the dice many times to get something musical; even when you do it's hard to reproduce it subsequently); the colour groups automation system has been replaced by a more standard MIDI Learn for knobs and sliders. The pay-off is an interface that makes it easy for everyone to find all the available functionality - many simply never discovered or understood the depth of what was on offer with GURU - and has allowed us to build, for example, a slicer that outperforms the industry's favourite semi-automatic standalone slicer.

Hope this clarifies things a bit & I'm happy to try and answer any further questions in this thread.

Cheers,
Angus.


_________________
-- Angus F. Hewlett - CEO - FXpansion --
Twitter | YouTube
Synth Squad | BFD Eco
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Reply with quote
Post Congrats! 
First of all, Congratulations!

We've all been waiting a while, and I'm very happy to be one of the first consumers to try this thing out.
I love Guru, and i'm hoping to feel the same about Geist.

My first question:
Does the demo installer actually install a standalone? I can't find it in the applications folder.

Sparks

Reply with quote
Post  
Not currently, sorry... it'll be fixed in the next demo update. Until then maybe you could try a free light host such as SAVIhost or AUtest. Or maybe the Plogue Bidule demo.


_________________
Mayur Maha
FXpansion Audio [www.fxpansion.com]
Please do not PM me - use the support ticket system instead
View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Quantization 
Can you xplain how the quantization feature works differs from GURU's? Can you import MPC grooves, for example, and what grooves come with the user content?

Reply with quote
Post Will there be any purchase discount for Guru owners? 
Will there be any purchase discount for Guru owners?
Thanks

View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post  
there already is, login to your fxpansion account and head over to the shop


_________________
GURU & Akai MPD32
View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post  
Sparkz

Quantization
Can you xplain how the quantization feature works differs from GURU's? Can you import MPC grooves, for example, and what grooves come with the user content?

Right click on the groove 'knob' you'll see that you can import midi files, Guru groove, or extract groove from pattern

View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Randomize button like in guru? 
Hi,

I just try the demo of Geist. Is there randomize button like in Guru?? This is the most important part for me for creating my own experimental music. Thats why I love Guru so much. I couldn't find any randomize button in Geist though? except just an option of random velocity, pan, etc. I am talking about "master randomize button like in Guru"
If geist doesn't have this randomize button, I will really really think twin to do cross grade.

View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post  
Really interesting, it seems you've put a lot of thought into the 'creative randomizing' functions in Guru and now Geist.

Quite fascinating imo and would glady discuss and provide much feedback which I also have thought a lot about!

/cheers

View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post  
So I m stick to Guru for now.



Last edited by utama on Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post  
utama wrote:
@trialuser

Yes, that randomize button blows my mind. Its the quickest way to create random midi patterns. If you like to hear more what I mean by using that button, please to listen to my work here, http://soundcloud.com/arteshe
I am sure you have an idea from there

wish that Geist have one. So I m stick to Guru for now.


Hey I like your stuff! Really amazing and enjoyable. thx!

View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post  
I think that hundreds of users didn't step up to Geist because of the lack of the randomization bar, which was a must for every sound designer or avantgarde producer. Among these, I'm just one who loves to create new sonic structures. Let's see if updates will bring something.

View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post  
enzocanale wrote:
I think that hundreds of users didn't step up to Geist because of the lack of the randomization bar, which was a must for every sound designer or avantgarde producer. Among these, I'm just one who loves to create new sonic structures. Let's see if updates will bring something.


Almost all of the Guru user base have upgraded to Geist.
We do have randomisation in there, but in a much more controllable fashion using the graph live playback randomisers. Randomisation of patterns has been requested, but its not something that we get a lot of requests for, so please understand that it may be a long time (if ever) before it goes in to Geist...

-Paul

View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post  
Ok thanks anyway...
I'll stay with Guru at the moment, but I'll keep an eye on updates because the randomization bar (in the sample editor was crucial) was working more than great, and yet no other fxpansion competitor has anything similar.
Keep up the good work.
Enzo

View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post  
Best software I ever bought for making drum and melody kits! As of 1.1.1.2, we find Geist ~90% in perfection. Round Robbin/random, drag edits, layers, fx, and all other current features should be here to stay. For the first time there isn't a feature that is missing for my needs. And I use every feature of Geist.

View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:
Reply to topic Page 1 of 2
Goto page 1, 2  Next
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum