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New Sonic Reality BFD Kit Expansion Libraries
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Post New Sonic Reality BFD Kit Expansion Libraries 
Hi BFD users. This is Dave from Sonic Reality. I've got some great news to share with you regarding additional third party support for BFD from Sonic Reality.

We're releasing two new titles today for download from http://www.esoundz.com plus 5 more coming in the next couple of months. Beyond that we have even more planned so I'll check in on the forum in case you have any questions, requests or want to chat about the drummers or anything. One of the unique things about the packs we're doing come down to the specific people involved such as the drummers and producers that each have their own distinct character sound. Even if you think you have EVERYTHING for BFD (and there's some great stuff) these add something different to your collection.

I've been getting more and more into BFD myself and managed to get a cool iMap finger drumming thing happening with it that I'll show in video soon. But we also did the BFD versions for the e-Drummers that love it so... keyboardist or drummer we hope you like the new stuff!

A news announcement is coming today regarding the releases. It'll be posted on esoundz soon.

Thanks!

Dave

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Here's the news hot off the press: http://www.esoundz.com/news1.php?nbr=6040

More info will be here on the site too in the third party section. But since they are available now to download I thought I'd pop in and tell you about it. They sound great in BFD! Loving it. Really had fun with these and I'm planning on making a bunch of extra presets for it as well as other bonus material to be added.

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Very cool. I have been waiting for these! Just picked these up. Nice to add a little Ken Scott flavor to BFD.

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Great! You're going to love them. I'm really happy with how they came out. It wasn't easy but really worth doing because I love the way BFD works. So many options and cool features like controlling kick and snare bleed which you don't always get... although ironically engineers often spend a lot of time gating to get rid of the bleed and in one click poof it's gone! Haha. But you can adjust it. I was messing around with that. My preference is that it's off but I might do a bunch of presets for these kits with variations like that. I did do some presets that work great with iMap, a keyboard mapping format I came up with years ago that I think gives a nice spread of articulations across the keyboard. Could be new to BFD users so I am curious what you think of that. I'll do some video examples too using BFD. Then of course the e-Drummers who trigger it and I hope they'll like it. You can anti machine gun most of it pretty good. Should play well from an e-Kit. Some might prefer it to other format versions we've done.

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These kits are great!! They have a multitude of articulations (including:- bell, splash, choked hits and drags for Hi Hats), and as keyboard drummer the playability with natural velocity scaling is fantastic!!

Be sure to check out all the additional presets for both made by "yours truly". The Michael Jackson Billie Jean one I did for Bill's kit is my fave (Bill Cobham - MJ BJean Style).

Smile


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Those are cool presets Ashley. Thanks for contributing. We're just scratching the surface on what can be done too. Another thing that will be coming later besides more presets and even some Ken Scott mixes is Cobham and Siebenberg midi grooves from the sessions. So there's a lot to look forward to with these drummer-themed collections.

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I picked up the Siebenberg kit. Downloading now. I liked the drums on the Peart kit. Hated the lack of individual output on the cymbals and how they were leveled with the rest of the kit. We'll see how these came out.

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We're doing some updates on the Peart kit so if you have any requests for that we may be able to accommodate.

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Squids wrote:
We're doing some updates on the Peart kit so if you have any requests for that we may be able to accommodate.

Thanks for the offer!
Assuming I installed the Peart kit properly, the cymbals are only available for BFD on the OH/Rm/Amb3 channels(if I'm wrong about that, I'll dutifully pillory myself on the forum mast).

Assuming that is true, the first problem I have with that is that it is VERY difficult to control the level of the cymbals in conjunction with the kit pieces when trying to dry out the sound. You can use the individual kit piece faders on each of the three ambient channels, but that is a PITA as you can't tell the over-all change without setting all 40 or so faders, then going hm...I'd like a little more Room ... I basically gave up and don't use the cymbals from the kit, even though I like them.

The second issue is that in small kit scenarios where I want to control the pan of the kit pieces very tightly, it's again very difficult because the cymbals are on the stereo channels only.

So, basically I'd ask that you please add direct/mono channels for each of the cymbals. Or, please explain some easier ways to deal with leveling and panning. I'm open to either.

The kicks seem a little clicky/plasticy and so I'm having a hard time getting that good solid Neil thump. But, I am leaning towards that being my problem, not the kit.

I think the toms from the kit are awesome by the way. So, hopefully the fact that I'm pointing out the things that I don't like doesn't overshadow some of the excellent content of the Peart kit.

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Interesting. I think some of the new presets I'm going to do may offer some options in terms of variation of sound. You could yourself try turning various kick and snare bleed buttons on and off to see how that sounds and of course play around with the under-snare mic channel. A lot of those things can affect say the kick. I personally think the kick sounds fantastic. It's Neil's awesome DW kit and it was recorded by Nick Raskulinecz who produces Rush. All of those elements help it be "authentic Neil". But everyone's tastes ARE different and fortunately there are options to tweak it to your needs.

As for the cymbals that's an interesting question. The EpiK DrumS kits are done the same way. We typically don't record a direct mic on cymbals because we usually record the way a particular engineer/producer records drums for an album. If they don't use a direct cymbal mic then we don't do it in the sampling... that said, often times they don't record something like additional ambient channels or under-snare mics and we DO add that in just to have it but still... the point is that we go for mainly their sound they capture normally when recording a kit for an album (or classic albums in the case of these new releases that recreate the Supertramp drum sound from Crime of the Century and Cobham's Mahavishnu Fibes clear acrylic kit - both of which Ken Scott originally recorded with those guys).

I am probably not the best person to ask about solving a problem such as the one you are bringing up as I am sure there are BFD experts on this forum that have all sorts of suggestions. My first thought about it was to use the individual TRIM knobs to be able to differentiate cymbal levels from other things going through the overhead channels. That's what I would do personally as a user.

But the possibilities of routing the cymbals' stereo overheads through another output to have separate "buss" control (not to mention separate processing options) I would think would be do-able. I just don't have a good detailed answer to give you but I'll look into it next week. I'm curious myself.

Btw I should mention that I am not the main BFD programmer at Sonic Reality and I'm not even the support guy by any means. I'm the owner of the company though (who else would reply on a forum at 10pm on a Friday night though? haha) I'm the one who co-produces the actual sample sessions with these guys like Peart, Siebenberg, Cobham, Scott etc. My personal expertise is more in that area. But I'm loving BFD and I want to take our content further and further in this platform because I think it's a great fit.

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Squids wrote:

But the possibilities of routing the cymbals' stereo overheads through another output to have separate "buss" control (not to mention separate processing options) I would think would be do-able. I just don't have a good detailed answer to give you but I'll look into it next week. I'm curious myself.

Hey Dave, I follow where you guys are coming from to get the kits (and fyi, I really like the Siebenberg kit. Crime is one of my all time fave albums and the drum sound was a key pieces to the killer groove/sound they found for that record.)

But, I don't think your suggestion above will work. Because, every kit piece has the 3 ambient channels as outputs. As far as I know you have to go to each piece and individually turn off or level set those 3 channels. So, for example .. if I want to reduce the overall room sound of the "drum kit" I can no longer do that without reducing the actual over-all level of the cymbals. Obviously, I can go to each cymbal or other kit piece and adjust those 3 outputs, but that is what I have found to be such a PITA, that I just quit using the cymbals. Same thing with the Siebenberg kit, I just now started messing with it. It sounds great by itself. But, I'm finding it troublesome to mix. So, I'll probably nix the cymbals on those presets too.

You just may be running into one of those situations where the significant amount of routing capabilities in BFD makes it difficult to map in a kit that wasn't specifically recorded for it. I don't know. I could also be dense and something obvious is eluding me.

How bout it BFD dudes? How do you deal with kit pieces that don't have their own channel? Is there a way to "trick" BFD into routing a channel?

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So in order to get the cymbal sounds you want you use other cymbals that have direct mics? If that's what works for you then I guess that's the beauty of having options in BFD. But I wouldn't personally want to have to settle on just using the direct cymbal mics when the overheads are often the beautiful sound we're using to hearing the most. For instance, in the case of Ken Scott's recorded kits with these guys he almost exclusively uses Coles ribbon mics on overheads. They sound gorgeous. A lot of other BFD kits I am sure have really nice sounding mics for the overheads even if they also have a spot mic on the cymbal direct. Neil Peart's has AKG C12s as overheads. The overheads act as the cymbal direct mics as well as the crisp stereo overview of the whole kit in many drum recordings. (the ambient and room mic channels are a whole other thing and generally there's not much changing of the mix between kit pieces with those... not that one couldn't do it with samples if they have the ability to and I could see the need to adjust per kit piece more if a hybrid kit was being made with pieces coming from different kits that had different ambience).

When I get back in the office on Monday I'll dig into some of this stuff more. I am sure our BFD programmer can answer this is in a nanosecond but I'm the only one "working" at 11pm on a Friday. Wink Actually I was just editing some drum sounds.

Speaking of cymbals though I've got a really cool cymbal library I recorded with Danny Gottlieb and his incredible rare collection of cymbals. Some of them he played with Pat Metheny, some belonged to the late great Joe Morello including the Ride that was on Brubeck's Take Five. I'm hoping to bring that to BFD2 format as well and it does have cymbal directs I believe (since it's just cymbals). But like I said, I'm personally a big fan of overheads for cymbals.

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Squids wrote:
So in order to get the cymbal sounds you want you use other cymbals that have direct mics? If that's what works for you then I guess that's the beauty of having options in BFD.

No, that's not it at all. Because each of the kit pieces has a direct + oh/rm/amb3 I can both position and individually level kit pieces AND globally adjust any of the ambient channels with a single fader. I agree %100 that the room mics have tremendous flavor. I actually automate the Room channel quite a bit though. It is a great tool for moving a kit forward for temporary focus. However, if all the other kit pieces have direct channels and the cymbals don't, the entire kit does not remain relative to the change. You are literally removing the cymbals, while you are simply drying up the toms.

So, I'm not necessarily saying your doing anything "wrong". I'm just saying it is different than how I've accustomed myself to using BFD. Load up the Yamaha Custom Absolute and play with the global OH+Room channels sometime. Have them at the default level during full on band chorus/jam mode, then simply drop them down to -30 or so on a break where it's just flourishes with an acoustic instrument. There are other ways I could do the same thing, it's just super simple if the entire kit is mapped the same.

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You could route all ambient channels for the cym's to an aux, then control the blend using the sliders in the KPI. That way you'll still have full control over the blend between kit pieces and ambience on a single fader. In addition you have the global trim for the kit piece in the slot and artic trim to adjust levels per articulation.

Did you try my preset? "Bob Seibenberg 10 Ash". I think that has a good blend for the cym's off the bat, and is quite dry.


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AshleySmith08 wrote:
You could route all ambient channels for the cym's to an aux, then control the blend using the sliders in the KPI. That way you'll still have full control over the blend between kit pieces and ambience on a single fader. In addition you have the global trim for the kit piece in the slot and artic trim to adjust levels per articulation.

ah... perfect! I forgot about being able to assign the out of the ambient channels to aux on the piece panel. Dude that may just do the trick.

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Did you try my preset? "Bob Seibenberg 10 Ash". I think that has a good blend for the cym's off the bat, and is quite dry.

No, I only see presets "Bob Siebenberg iMap DK18 1 thru 6" Which seem to be varying snare combos. Hmm...what did I miss?

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