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Outdated GURU

Support for GURU

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Analogger
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Outdated GURU

Postby Analogger » Mon May 17, 2010 8:11 am

Hi Guys, I recently purchased guru after many months researching battery 3, motu bpm, and guru. I chose guru mainly because motu bpm is very urban orientated and i dont particularly want 15gb of hip hop samples when this is not my style of music. Battery 3 is an awesome programme but not what im looking for from a drum plug in. Which leaves guru, a good choice you would think. However, after spending a couple of weeks with both the demo and the full programme, i cant help feeling that it is both outdated and undernourished. It is sorely in need of a major overhaul. My question is, have i just wasted a couple of hundred bucks when i should have stuck with motu bpm, or is there a major upgrade coming soon that i can get for cheap, ie. GURU 2?

Zapf
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Postby Zapf » Tue May 18, 2010 4:50 am

I'm in the same boat. Bought it, have had for a few weeks, found that some of the features I need don't work on the RTAS version... the manual is in a couple different pieces, which makes it a pain to figure out what features are really supposed to be working... and this forum is pretty dead--hard to get answers. And loyalists have been waiting for version two for years... So, yeah, it feels like abandonware.

Still, Guru is a very smart piece of software, very well done, and there's really not something out there that's altogether better, except for perhaps Maschine--which is in a different category, price-wise, and in the fact it's hardware and software.

I can't understand why fxpansion wouldn't take this product seriously. I think V2 update would probably bring Guru right back to being the leading software drum module. Hope it happens.

Analogger
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Postby Analogger » Tue May 18, 2010 8:12 am

The more i think about it the more i feel utterly ripped off. Whilst i agree that guru is a good programme, there are some fundamental flaws that prevent it from being great. Effects are mediochre at best for example. With advancements in cpu power, there should be little or no limitations with this software and i cant help feeling that i have paid the same price for a 92 mercedes as a brand new one, and am no longer able to get parts. Updates for the programme have only served to fix some bug issues with no real advancements made since its inception. Angus if you are reading this, which i doubt you are because you are now concentrating on your new babies, ie synth squad, bfd 2, i am disappointed with this product and the level of support that seems to exist. You have the potential for a truly great product on your hands that could easily be the market leader, but it is sorely let down by a lack of support and interest from the creators.

Drew_fx
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Postby Drew_fx » Tue May 18, 2010 10:40 am

We obviously cannot give out release dates or anything like that, but yes, Guru has a future. It isn't dead and we are not dropping support of it.

Zapf
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Joined: Tue May 30, 2006 3:27 am

Postby Zapf » Tue May 18, 2010 2:45 pm

Thank you Drew...

Version 2 has the potential to be a killer product.

It's interesting that the same company makes BFD and Guru. That's expansive thinking.

What makes Guru for me, and I hope is expanded in the future, is the pattern sequencer.... it's a miniature composition environment... I think this kind of thing is very necessary for the future of drum programming. And it's also important that it be third party and multi-platform, so, while 'Live' has some really cool features with their 'midi clips' and triggering in session view, it can't be used in other DAWs.

Oddly, there is still a bit of a divide between drum programming traditionalists, who mostly do long-form assembly of drums on the piano roll... and people who use pattern sequencers. Pattern sequencers are still seen by some as dumb, simplistic, or for the HipHop/electronic crowd. But, the more complete integration of the pattern sequencer with external drum modules (BFD), will change that... and hopefully it's coming.

Angus_FX
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Postby Angus_FX » Tue May 18, 2010 2:55 pm

Would like to add a few things to what Drew said:-

* The likes of improved effects have never been delivered as part of free updates.

* We don't have an annual update model where we bolt on a few new features every year, it takes longer but we think the results are worth it.

* Limitations are, to some extent, part of the GURU design.. it's not intended to be everything to all people, the sequencer for example is nothing like as powerful or all-encompassing as Logic's, but that's exactly what makes it nice to use. Same thing, the 16 pads are much fewer than Battery's, but having that fixed layout makes some things possible that can't be done neatly with a dynamic design.

* We have a freely available demo, which you indeed tried.. I don't get it, you try the demo, buy the product for what it is, and then say you feel ripped off? Buying a product for what it's /going/ to be is never a good idea, unless you get some amazing deal - software development is always fraught with uncertainty.

Zapf - which advertised features don't work on RTAS? Aside from midi-out, the features are - as far as I'm aware - exactly the same between all versions.
-- Angus F. Hewlett - CEO - FXpansion --
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Synth Squad | BFD Eco

Zapf
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Postby Zapf » Tue May 18, 2010 5:58 pm

Hi Angus,

What doesn't work for me in PT is the gate function cutting off the samples in response to note-off, either from a live keyboard or from the midi notes in my sequencer that are selecting the patterns... there's a thread somewhere on here that's a few weeks old. (The fact that midi out is not supported in PT was noted by you guys--so, no complaints there.)

In the past few months, as I've added more third party VIs, I've come to realize that RTAS seems to be a less stable format for most VIs, and wrapping with the VST2RTAS wrapper doesn't usually make that better. It's a Pro Tools problem. It's making me rethink my choice of host. All I can ask of any developer is that they be clear about RTAS performance. Which I think you've been.

As to Guru's future limitations--despite the seeming glut of rhythm products on the market, I think there's a need for a more advanced pattern sequencer... one that's not built into a host, and can integrate with other sound modules. Whether Guru grows into that or not is up to you. But, someone will do it...and hook it up to BFD.

Analogger
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Postby Analogger » Tue May 18, 2010 6:05 pm

Angus, firstly let me thank you for your reply. It is not my intention to disrespect you or your company. Yes, I tried the free demo, but honestly I thought that the full programme would have been much more feature laden than the demo, not simply a bunch of additional samples and sounds. If GURU 2 is on it's way then I am sure it will be awesome....like I say a market leader. I will look forward to that day and will upgrade when it is available.

Regarding free effects upgrades, I for one would not mind paying a few extra quid if I knew what I was getting was worth it. Not everything is expected to be free

fabianseip@gmail.com
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Postby fabianseip@gmail.com » Thu May 20, 2010 3:54 pm

i agree, the pattern sequencer is excellent. i also like the simple/electronic orientated sampler functions BUT it is excellent for sequencing drum libraries, too.

so i hope one day we can send midi CC from step sequencers to open and close the hihats within a pattern! :wink:

and: allow velocity and realtime controllers (poly aftertouch, modwheel) to control more stuff internally!

bpm gets more excitement at the moment because it is the more recent program, but guru has some very cool groove functions and other things.

jbrown3
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Postby jbrown3 » Sat Jun 05, 2010 2:05 am

fas1piano wrote:i agree, the pattern sequencer is excellent. i also like the simple/electronic orientated sampler functions BUT it is excellent for sequencing drum libraries, too.

so i hope one day we can send midi CC from step sequencers to open and close the hihats within a pattern! :wink:

and: allow velocity and realtime controllers (poly aftertouch, modwheel) to control more stuff internally!

bpm gets more excitement at the moment because it is the more recent program, but guru has some very cool groove functions and other things.


Screw BPM, no offense!!! That is a straight GURU ripoff. But what Angus and the Fxpansion gang should do, is what all military cold-war foes have done in the past. Buy a copy of Maschine and BPM, disect the heck out of them, and then send in an anonymous spy, posed as a Maschine/BPM beta tester and user, retrieve the info, and concoct a new weapon of rhythmic destruction!!!! BOOM!!!! You better believe that's what they would do!!! Well, they did it already, from the looks of BPM. But i digress now!!! GURU 2 will be worth the wait if Fxpansion doesn't abandon it like they did DR-008 back in the day (that really pissed me off). Anyhow.....

Angus_FX
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Postby Angus_FX » Sat Jun 05, 2010 9:37 am

Fortunately for us, NI have been fairly public with their Maschine beta programme... 8)
-- Angus F. Hewlett - CEO - FXpansion --

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Synth Squad | BFD Eco

animal808
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Postby animal808 » Fri Jun 11, 2010 8:04 pm

I haven't used Motu BPM but thanks for pointing it out.

Has anyone used it?...I've only watched the videos.

It's what I expected GURU might have looked like after owning it for 3 years and never seeing a major update.

sandblast
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Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2008 11:44 am

Postby sandblast » Sat Jun 26, 2010 5:45 pm

Next months Computer Music, due out end of july, is to feature a free "exclusive CM" version of Guru on its disc.

Does that make it more or less likely that we are getting very close now to the release of Guru v.2..?

Should i buy Toontrack Beatstation, basically a software version of a standalone drumbox with nothing anywhere near the mangling power of Guru, or simply hang on a bit...( guess i've answered my own query there)

jbrown3
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Postby jbrown3 » Tue Jun 29, 2010 4:51 am

sandblast wrote:Next months Computer Music, due out end of july, is to feature a free "exclusive CM" version of Guru on its disc.

Does that make it more or less likely that we are getting very close now to the release of Guru v.2..?

Should i buy Toontrack Beatstation, basically a software version of a standalone drumbox with nothing anywhere near the mangling power of Guru, or simply hang on a bit...( guess i've answered my own query there)


Stick with GURU over Beatstation. There is no sequencer in Beatstation. I saw the videos for this and was not impressed.

three_eyed_otter
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Postby three_eyed_otter » Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:50 pm

FWIW,

I own Guru, Battery 1,2, & 3, Bfd 1 & 2 w/the 8 bit kit, Deluxe, & Percussion add-ons, & Linpulgs RMIV, as well as some major beat-making hardware (Mv-8800, Korg emx-1 electribe, alesis micron, sr-16, & sr-18, & a Yamaha Dtxpress III) so I have lots to compare. Yesterday I opened up Battery 3 beta to give it a run through in stand alone mode. Today I opened up Guru to give it a run through in stand-alone mode & they just don't compare. Battery might have some nicer acoustic samples than Guru, but you cannot get a groove going in Battery like you can in Guru. For tweeking Battery is more sampled based whereas Guru can tweek samples & the groove--it's just a whole nother animal. Having the built in sequencers in the Fxpansion products (BFD & Guru) just makes them so much more valuable (IMO). I think the true comparison is now Guru & NI Maschine & not Guru & Battery. Just a thought on Battery, I fear it will turn into the red-headed step child that is lost between Maschine & Kontakt. As far as Guru is concerned I think it's quite valuable for beat-making & manipulating & will gladly wait & pay for my Guru 2 upgrade.

have a good one
3Eo


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