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BFD3 feature requests list

Support for BFD2 Acoustic Drum Workstation

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roclowther
Posts: 34
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:38 pm

Postby roclowther » Wed May 01, 2013 10:28 pm

1. mixer view with available inserts
2. be able to bounce individual instruments to audio tracks
3. better memory server handling

elegentdrum
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 6:23 pm

New features

Postby elegentdrum » Thu May 16, 2013 10:28 pm

The main thing I want to see is what I would call MIDI math. This should be very light wight programming and easy to impliment. The end result would be lots of new posibilities for combining trigger systems. Kat (alternate mode) in head and on head trigger will soon be flodding the market. One they have a mesh head I will be trying to combine this with a roland drum for the best of both worlds.

Examples:
First off, more control point in your trigger curve. Roland uses a set of pre-defined curves like Log1 and Exp2. I want to be able to control a spline. four vaiables would need to be input for this: Offset +-, Muliplier 0..1..3 (0 to 300%) and curve slelect with mulitplier (Log1.3 and exp 0.8 now become posible). 5 control point rather than one on the curve would serve the same purpose if you want to keep the interface simple. once the curve is created, I want to be able to move the curve up and down.

Next case: two inputs, one output: say I have two seporate triggers on the same instrument. I may want to average them, I may want to velocity split them. I may want a speady gradient mix between high and low volumes.

another case: mount an inhead inside a roland drum. use the roland for everythig but the head trigger level. this is a complex case of two inputs one output.

A case I have right now with no solution: I have a 120 Pad as my kick. I also have two trick laser trigger systems (detonator). THe pad works great at low levels, the lasers do not. The lasers work well at mid and high volumes and give me seporate not numbers for right and left kick. I want the kick sound to work as follows: below volume 30, the pad maps to one set of sounds. above vol 30, I get two seporate sound one for right and left. A velocity of 30 shoud not be a sharp cut offm the transition between should happen over 10 or 20 levels of midi signal.

In general. being able to perform some math on the midi before it ever hits the sounds can be powerful and not take up much cpu power. re-assign note numbers and velocities and detail control over positioning is important. A common problem is that the trigger will not use all the positioning range. say my trigger only knows position 0, and 50...100%. I want to remap the 50..10- to become 1...100.

The output of this midi math section should include the ability to re-map velocity splits. Most sample are recorded in a way to achieve consitancy for an identifiable flavor. real drummers get entirly different sound at low, mid and high level from a drum. more differance then the existing vel layers achieve.

you could also put in midi filters that eliminate issues with problem triggers. Visu lite triggers tend to have one note jump off the desired scale frequently. allowing sucsesive hits to only vary by some % vs the last 1 to 5 hits would be effictive in fighting this.

IF BFD can accomidate controls over existing trigger systems, you will sell many more copies. Expecially if this was included with your low end products and allows low end trigger users and DYI triggers to be delt with till usable.

Kat is about to put out a new brain. you may want to communicate with them for a profile.

elegentdrum
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 6:23 pm

Postby elegentdrum » Thu May 16, 2013 10:39 pm

another item I would like to see besides midi math is the rim split. Rim sound should mix with the head, not replace. at least for the snare drum. This would also be fitting for a Timbali or roto tom (tom 1 only). because current samples are not designed with this in mind I tend to use a standard wood snare with a metal picalo for the rim. once you find a match up that does not phase and sounds in pitch together it's great (at last within the TD-20 it was)


Yet another cool feature would be:
Randome blue notes would be cool. at specified velocities, occational non-perfect notes are desired to give a more realistic performance.

once you get positioning into any "drum" then you should be able to use the position and/or the vel to tune variable like pitch bend and damping.

roclowther
Posts: 34
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:38 pm

Postby roclowther » Mon May 20, 2013 3:15 pm

purtington wrote:
roclowther wrote:1. mixer view with available inserts
2. be able to bounce individual instruments to audio tracks
3. better memory server handling


What do you mean by, "available inserts" ?

You can definitely bounce individual instruments in stand alone so I'm guessing you must mean within your host ?
In which case your host should be able to do this although you would have to have each instrument routed into your host.
I can do this in sonar very easily.

Steve


Inserts meaning plugs from the host. e.g...Like inserting an Ozone plug right into BFD2 on the kick. You 're right, I wasn't clear on that.

You're right. I don't use standalone, I use BFD2 in Pro tools only.
I can bounce now just by soloing an instrument and sending the BFD track to another track but doing this can take alot of REAL TIME if you have a lot of instruments.
It would be nice to bus directly from BFD2 to individual tracks but this can't be done unless I'm missing something.
Can you route individual instruments to individual tracks and bounce all at once?
thanks

elegentdrum
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 6:23 pm

A reply and Another look at MIDI math

Postby elegentdrum » Mon May 20, 2013 6:29 pm

If you set up to indevidual outs, sure you can bounce them all at one pass to "tape"
This assumes you have drivers with 32 (or less) streams avilable. manual currently staes 8 sterio and 16 mono sends.

Back to the midi math, I think I can re-state the issue better.

To me, what is comming in is the following:
for each "trigger" you get
1.) volume
2.) rim switch on/off
3.) position
4.) sometimes controller data for say hats or choke

#1, I want to gain access to the rim and head seporatly splitting this into two midi streams before the math starts
#2 I want to be able to perform math starting with any 4 inputs ---all math like adding subtracting, mutiplying and division.
#3 4 levels(groups) of control for the match on each of the 4 inputs. say I want to use vel range 1 on trigger 4 and vel range 2 on trigger 3......then send this out as a single instrument. Controller data or Position instead(better yet, also) of velocity should also be posible as the organizer of the controls.
#4 make adjustments to the trigger curves for each seporate input before and or after Step3.

It sounds like im asking alot. but is it really to much to ask to modify MIDI data? the stream of information is VERY small by todays computer standards.

If you are wondering what my setup looks like, see here http://www.gearslutz.com/board/electron ... ation.html

kafka
Posts: 322
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:47 pm

Postby kafka » Mon May 20, 2013 7:33 pm

Partial Kit Loading

I have a couple of sets of cymbals that I use on a number of kits. If I could creat a kit with just those cymbals in them, and then load it on top of any other kit, replacing the defined kit pieces but leaving the undefined kit pieces untouched, it would be helpful.

jackn2mpu
Posts: 270
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 2:49 pm
Location: Sopranos State (NJ)

Postby jackn2mpu » Wed May 22, 2013 12:41 pm

Bigger gui - on a 27" Imac at native screen resolution the size of BFD2 is way too small.

Ability to use third party plugins in the mixer

Cymbal swells added to the groove library

Easier sequencer - I can't wrap my head around the one in BFD2. Confusing.

Keep the kit view but make it customizable to the actual size of the kit.

As somebody else here mentioned that even though it's not BFD3-ish but I'd like to see more manufacturer specific libraries like the Zildjian Digital Vault ones. Say DW drums, Sabian cymbals, etc. But what would be BFD3 worthy would be being having separate groups listing JUST one manufacturer instead of every manufacturer so when you go to load kit pieces you could just look at either Zildjian, Sabian, Soultone cymbals for instance. Or being able to sort the view by manufacturer like you can for when you're looking to purchase something like at Sweetwater.
Jack
Pro Tools 2019.6
2012 Mac Pro cheesegrater, 3.46 GHz hex core cpu, 48 gig ram, OSX 10.13.6
BFD 3 and plenty more

Qapla

joelonsdale
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:55 pm
Location: London
Contact:

A vastly simplified version!

Postby joelonsdale » Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:58 pm

I have never really got used to BFD2 - the GUI is too crowded, I do not require a lot of the features, I find it too complicated - in fact I am using BFD1.5 still and am very happy. I do NOT require BFD to run it's own plug-ins, I don't need MIDI loops or humanising features, I don't need much more than BFD1.5 offered! So how about a stripped down GUI option? And how about two sample sets for each drum kit piece - I want 2 slightly different hit snares for each velocity so make humanising easier!

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JimmyTheSaint
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:22 am

Postby JimmyTheSaint » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:15 am

1) resizable view +1: BFD is unusable on my MacBook Retina's native screen, so I always have to put it on an external monitor if I want to tweak anything. And high ppi screens are only going to get more and more prevalent due to falling prices and their desirable razor-sharpness. Whether other software continues to fail in this respect or not is irrelevant to how this new feature would benefit BFD's usability.

2) kit view +1: obviously an option to switch it on and off would keep all users satisfied.

3) simplified view +1: a switchable kit view fits in here. But a truly user-friendly simplified view would take some creative planning. Up to a point, the complex view aids in feature discovery and makes it easier to remember BFD's capabilities. Past a certain point, it's a visual burden, but that point of over-complexity will differ for different people.

HOFX
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 6:50 am

Postby HOFX » Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:39 pm

Insert a simple MIDI groove (via DAW MIDI editor), have the BFD3 "brain" play it with groove, intelligent improvisation.

jackn2mpu
Posts: 270
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 2:49 pm
Location: Sopranos State (NJ)

Postby jackn2mpu » Fri Jul 05, 2013 1:21 am

purtington wrote:I was just looking at multi touch screens and how much they have come down in the last year or two.
Still expensive but there some more affordable ones.

I started thinking how much fun it would be if BFD3 (or 4 ?) were touch screen capable.
You could throw our your drum pads and just whack away at your screen instead :lol:

You can laugh now but it could happen one day :wink:

Steve
Interesting but not practical, especially if you can't make the screen angle comfortable for you. Standard upright screen and it's painful. Besides with most screens if you punch it to hard you break the screen, especially if you get caught up in the heat of the beat/moment. I know - I play drums as another instrument besides keys and guitars and it's all to easy to punch through a drum head. :wink:
Jack
Pro Tools 2019.6
2012 Mac Pro cheesegrater, 3.46 GHz hex core cpu, 48 gig ram, OSX 10.13.6
BFD 3 and plenty more

Qapla

jackn2mpu
Posts: 270
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 2:49 pm
Location: Sopranos State (NJ)

Postby jackn2mpu » Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:10 am

purtington wrote:
jackn2mpu wrote:
purtington wrote:I was just looking at multi touch screens and how much they have come down in the last year or two.
Still expensive but there some more affordable ones.

I started thinking how much fun it would be if BFD3 (or 4 ?) were touch screen capable.
You could throw our your drum pads and just whack away at your screen instead :lol:

You can laugh now but it could happen one day :wink:

Steve
Interesting but not practical, especially if you can't make the screen angle comfortable for you. Standard upright screen and it's painful. Besides with most screens if you punch it to hard you break the screen, especially if you get caught up in the heat of the beat/moment. I know - I play drums as another instrument besides keys and guitars and it's all to easy to punch through a drum head. :wink:


Well firstly screen angles aren't static http://accessories.euro.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=uk&l=en&s=bsd&cs=ukbsdt1&sku=750337&dgc=ST&cid=41141&lid=1069630&acd=239715600820560

This is the one I was looking at but I'm sure there are others and the price will ultimately come down.

Obviously I didn't really mean whack away and definitely not with sticks but surely a lot of people finger drum on touch pad
drum kits so you really don't need to hit them that hard.

I was watching this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bl0DS5ixZjY and wondering if it could be done with a VSTi drum
and who would be the first. If it could respond to touch as well as a drum pad (or better) then I think it would sell and in a few years I think a lot of people with have upgraded to windows 8 and what's the point if you don't have a multi touch screen ?
I'm sure other OS's will have touch screen versions at some point too.
It's still a technology very much in it's infancy and will improve some it time I'm sure.

I had the same view as you about touch screens especially for a desk top and figured it would be very uncomfortable to use for and great length of time but multi angle screens are a big help and I like to think microsoft would always allow users to toggle between mouse & keyboard as well as touch.
I've had a touch screen phone for over a year now and at times it's quite frustrating but other times brilliant.
I've had no experience with touch screen monitors so it's hard to say but part of the frustration with my phone is that the screen is to small and my fingers and thumbs are just too big and fat.

I'm not saying it's a great or even a good thing but that's never stopped things from selling in the past.
So I think a lot of people would buy it and I might even be one of them :lol:

It could be a case of who will be fool enough or brave enough to make a touch screen drum VSTi.
I'd like to think it would be FXpansion.

Steve
Slate has this for a daw console so it's feasible but not cheap and how many would buy it? This was tried once before by Slate and didn't sell (if it ever even came to market). http://www.slateproaudio.com/products/raven/
Jack
Pro Tools 2019.6
2012 Mac Pro cheesegrater, 3.46 GHz hex core cpu, 48 gig ram, OSX 10.13.6
BFD 3 and plenty more

Qapla

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SKoT_FX
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Postby SKoT_FX » Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:16 am

How many times have I tried to resize something on my non-touchy screens by pinching or twirling... I think I can safely say we're all trained up on the gestures now.

Multi-touch is def something on our radar, we just need to get clear of a certain very large project so we can get some breathing space to push the gui tech out a bit more.
SKoT McDonald
CTO FXpansion]

SNAFU
Posts: 55
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 5:42 pm

Postby SNAFU » Thu Aug 01, 2013 12:20 pm

Hm...I'm not crying for it...call me old fashioned, but I'd clearly like to have a stable and real good version of the next bfd rather than a last-minute-build-in-megatouch-gadget - until both of my arms or legs fall off, I think I prever , e.g. bfd as a host for my e-drums. Don't need multitouching anything. If it can - in some years maybe - OK. But I 'm much more into haptic feedback for some reason.

Although I really don't wanna say it's completely uneccessary! I'm just talking for me as musician and producer - I guess, the more you find yourself making music the "analog style" the less you will multitouch, as long as you deal with hardware controlers or real instruments.

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SKoT_FX
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Postby SKoT_FX » Fri Aug 02, 2013 3:25 am

(rewind to 1970s)

"I wish synth manufacturers would concentrate on decent weighted keyboards instead of playing with this new fangled MIDI thing..." ;)

There's a variety of new human-interfacing techniques (amongst plenty of other technologies) popping up regularly. We don't jump on them all, and we're often a few years past the bleeding edge (waiting for dust to settle on API standards, host app support to be fixed, even for a sensible set of gestures to emerge & standardise etc etc). Dipping our toes in the water with a part of the coding team certainly doesn't preclude ongoing support and maintenance by the rest of the team...
SKoT McDonald

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