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Angus_FX
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Postby Angus_FX » Fri Jun 28, 2013 7:36 pm

"Everything at beta" - means the entire product line of the time (15 individual plug-ins). Many of them will have been signed off as final well before that. Given other things in the pipeline though, I don't think our QA team could with a clear conscience sign off the entire line as final between now and Oct.. that's less than a week per plug-in, not allowing for vacations and suchlike.

Have to say, seems a bit odd to choose FXpansion vs Toontrack either way on the basis of which one's available four or six weeks earlier on PT11.. There's lots to like about both BFD2 & SD2, early availability seems like an odd decider. As long as you don't run (one of those others that we don't hold in much regard around here) of course. Wouldn't you rather wait a few weeks and just run the one that sounds better to you?

Recommended reading over at Pro Tools Expert with commentary from David Tremblay and one of the other Avid reps

http://www.pro-tools-expert.com/home-pa ... delay.html

(You might want to read the thread on Arturia's speedy AAX update over there also before passing judgement on effectiveness & whether or not they might have rushed QA.)

Everyone here appreciates that having to wait is not ideal.. we wanted to have this stuff all done and dusted in March-April, but it just hasn't worked out that way. As a plugin developer, you can't test and debug plug-ins against a half-finished, not-yet-stabilized DAW.. because when it blows up, which it inevitably does frequently during development, it's very hard to know who's at fault. Some of you have probably had the finished article longer than we have..!
-- Angus F. Hewlett - CEO - FXpansion --
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Synth Squad | BFD Eco

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Postby jackn2mpu » Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:26 pm

Great - just freakin' great. Now it looks like I'll not be going PT11 at all. October is NOT just a few weeks - it's a few months and even that's just a beta and who knows when final release will be? To tell the truth if I didn't have so much invested in BFD2 I'd happily dump it for Superior Drummer. It's not just a matter of what sounds better; it'd what's available to use in PT11.

Edit for additional:
Where's the article about supposed problems with the updater for the Arturia stuff and problems with it? I find nothing on the Pro Tools Expert site on it, just an article mentioning the availability of the aax updater.
Jack
DP9.02, 9.12 & 8.07
Pro Tools 10.3.10 & 11.3.1
27" iMac OSX 10.8.5 & OSX 10.9.5 3.4GHz quad i7 32 gig ram
BFD 3 and plenty more

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davecmcgrath
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Postby davecmcgrath » Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:08 pm

I'd just like to add a note regarding my previous post. I use BFD2 and BFD ECO within protools and have really spent the time learning and enjoying their capabilities and have invested in several expansion packs. My computers are not the most powerful and I often "downsize" to use ECO within protools to minimize the load on my cpu. With the introduction of protools 11 using the new avid audio engine it takes a lot of pressure off my computer and would potentially allow me to use BFD2 more within bigger sessions. I have no desire or need to move to other virtual drum products and can happily remain in protools 10 for tracking and editing, then can bounce out tracks to disk to mix in protools 11 should I desire. My point was that I was concerned that some people are likely to consider the AAX platform race as more important than the product itself. I'm sure FXPansion are acutely aware of the pressure to release soon, but I would rather wait till the products are ready. I'm sticking with BFD and offer Angus and his team my support
Dave
iMac 3.00 Ghz 12 Gb RAM OSX Yosemite, BFD ECO, BFD2, BFD3, Protools PT11, MBox2, Dell Studio 15 laptop Intel Core2 Duo P8600(2.4 Ghz), 4Gb Ram, Windows 7 64 Bit Ultimate, Alesis DM10 drums , Roland SPD-S

jackn2mpu
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Postby jackn2mpu » Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:23 pm

davecmcgrath wrote:I'd just like to add a note regarding my previous post. I use BFD2 and BFD ECO within protools and have really spent the time learning and enjoying their capabilities and have invested in several expansion packs. My computers are not the most powerful and I often "downsize" to use ECO within protools to minimize the load on my cpu. With the introduction of protools 11 using the new avid audio engine it takes a lot of pressure off my computer and would potentially allow me to use BFD2 more within bigger sessions. I have no desire or need to move to other virtual drum products and can happily remain in protools 10 for tracking and editing, then can bounce out tracks to disk to mix in protools 11 should I desire. My point was that I was concerned that some people are likely to consider the AAX platform race as more important than the product itself. I'm sure FXPansion are acutely aware of the pressure to release soon, but I would rather wait till the products are ready. I'm sticking with BFD and offer Angus and his team my support
Dave
That would be wonderful, bouncing track to disk and then mixing in PT11 but none of my mixing tools are available in aax 64 bit yet. As is none of my vi's either - NI for vi's and mix tools. Shouldn't have to do a two-step process either way.

Sure you could do drum tracks in BFD2 standalone and then import into PT or any other daw but that's a pain to do when working on a song. Totally ruins the workflow. Make a change in the drum track, render it, import into PT, find it sucks, go back to BFD2, repeat. Sounds like washing my hair - lather, rinse, repeat.
Jack
DP9.02, 9.12 & 8.07
Pro Tools 10.3.10 & 11.3.1
27" iMac OSX 10.8.5 & OSX 10.9.5 3.4GHz quad i7 32 gig ram
BFD 3 and plenty more

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davecmcgrath
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Postby davecmcgrath » Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:42 pm

Jack you could use rewire into PT11 from reaper or Vienna Ensemble or similar to keep BFD2 live. But as you say many other VI's and plugins are not AAX64 ready so stay in PT10 for a little while longer :D
iMac 3.00 Ghz 12 Gb RAM OSX Yosemite, BFD ECO, BFD2, BFD3, Protools PT11, MBox2, Dell Studio 15 laptop Intel Core2 Duo P8600(2.4 Ghz), 4Gb Ram, Windows 7 64 Bit Ultimate, Alesis DM10 drums , Roland SPD-S

jackn2mpu
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Postby jackn2mpu » Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:21 am

davecmcgrath wrote:Jack you could use rewire into PT11 from reaper or Vienna Ensemble or similar to keep BFD2 live. But as you say many other VI's and plugins are not AAX64 ready so stay in PT10 for a little while longer :D
VEPro is where I'm going to be spending my money and not PT11. I do like a lot of what 11 brings to the table but unfortunately the state of plugs being what they are it's not where I'll be working as there's simply no advantage to it at this point in time.
Jack
DP9.02, 9.12 & 8.07
Pro Tools 10.3.10 & 11.3.1
27" iMac OSX 10.8.5 & OSX 10.9.5 3.4GHz quad i7 32 gig ram
BFD 3 and plenty more

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aahladas
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Postby aahladas » Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:56 am

Angus_FX wrote:"Everything at beta" - means the entire product line of the time (15 individual plug-ins). Many of them will have been signed off as final well before that. Given other things in the pipeline though, I don't think our QA team could with a clear conscience sign off the entire line as final between now and Oct.. that's less than a week per plug-in, not allowing for vacations and suchlike.

Have to say, seems a bit odd to choose FXpansion vs Toontrack either way on the basis of which one's available four or six weeks earlier on PT11.. There's lots to like about both BFD2 & SD2, early availability seems like an odd decider. As long as you don't run (one of those others that we don't hold in much regard around here) of course. Wouldn't you rather wait a few weeks and just run the one that sounds better to you?

Recommended reading over at Pro Tools Expert with commentary from David Tremblay and one of the other Avid reps

http://www.pro-tools-expert.com/home-pa ... delay.html

(You might want to read the thread on Arturia's speedy AAX update over there also before passing judgement on effectiveness & whether or not they might have rushed QA.)

Everyone here appreciates that having to wait is not ideal.. we wanted to have this stuff all done and dusted in March-April, but it just hasn't worked out that way. As a plugin developer, you can't test and debug plug-ins against a half-finished, not-yet-stabilized DAW.. because when it blows up, which it inevitably does frequently during development, it's very hard to know who's at fault. Some of you have probably had the finished article longer than we have..!


My problem is that I have a tight schedule on my current project, and I don't have the luxury of waiting months for things to work. My biggest mistake was probably pre-ordering PT 11. But having it up and working as advertised would have been a huge boost to me. As it is, I have other DAW options, which I guess I'll have to stick with.

It's clear as days go by that this is a widespread issue, and there was something verging on false advertising by all parties leading up to the PT11 release. Both Avid and 3rd parties gave the impression that everything would be ready to go when PT11 released. In fact, those statements were made quite clearly and without qualification.

Not even Waves have released AAX yet. If they do I may be able to mix in PT11, but I'll have to continue production in PT10 or Sonar. The amount of productivity lost in bouncing out to different DAWs is no small thing.

As for BFD2, it is the best product of its kind, by far. I would not want to jump to another option unless it was a last resort. I think my biggest irritation is that I feel I was misled. I know Avid is ultimately to blame, but the plug-in makers played the game too.

jackn2mpu
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Postby jackn2mpu » Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:20 pm

aahladas wrote:
Angus_FX wrote:"Everything at beta" - means the entire product line of the time (15 individual plug-ins). Many of them will have been signed off as final well before that. Given other things in the pipeline though, I don't think our QA team could with a clear conscience sign off the entire line as final between now and Oct.. that's less than a week per plug-in, not allowing for vacations and suchlike.

Have to say, seems a bit odd to choose FXpansion vs Toontrack either way on the basis of which one's available four or six weeks earlier on PT11.. There's lots to like about both BFD2 & SD2, early availability seems like an odd decider. As long as you don't run (one of those others that we don't hold in much regard around here) of course. Wouldn't you rather wait a few weeks and just run the one that sounds better to you?

Recommended reading over at Pro Tools Expert with commentary from David Tremblay and one of the other Avid reps

http://www.pro-tools-expert.com/home-pa ... delay.html

(You might want to read the thread on Arturia's speedy AAX update over there also before passing judgement on effectiveness & whether or not they might have rushed QA.)

Everyone here appreciates that having to wait is not ideal.. we wanted to have this stuff all done and dusted in March-April, but it just hasn't worked out that way. As a plugin developer, you can't test and debug plug-ins against a half-finished, not-yet-stabilized DAW.. because when it blows up, which it inevitably does frequently during development, it's very hard to know who's at fault. Some of you have probably had the finished article longer than we have..!


My problem is that I have a tight schedule on my current project, and I don't have the luxury of waiting months for things to work. My biggest mistake was probably pre-ordering PT 11. But having it up and working as advertised would have been a huge boost to me. As it is, I have other DAW options, which I guess I'll have to stick with.

It's clear as days go by that this is a widespread issue, and there was something verging on false advertising by all parties leading up to the PT11 release. Both Avid and 3rd parties gave the impression that everything would be ready to go when PT11 released. In fact, those statements were made quite clearly and without qualification.

Not even Waves have released AAX yet. If they do I may be able to mix in PT11, but I'll have to continue production in PT10 or Sonar. The amount of productivity lost in bouncing out to different DAWs is no small thing.

As for BFD2, it is the best product of its kind, by far. I would not want to jump to another option unless it was a last resort. I think my biggest irritation is that I feel I was misled. I know Avid is ultimately to blame, but the plug-in makers played the game too.
The Waves situation is a whole 'nother matter. They had absolutely no timetable for aax 64 bit native until people started pushing on them. It was one of those situations if 'we'll get to it when we feel like doing it and the market be damned' but that's kind of changed.

I think the biggest problem was Avid giving developers a way out with having a co-install of PT10 and 11. They knew developers wouldn't have AAX 64 bit ready when 11 dropped and were just whistling past the graveyard. But yeah - Angus even said at Winter NAMM 2013 that we'd have AAX 64 bit when we needed (that is, when PT11 dropped) but as you can see that was either a lie or a gross error on his part and he shouldn't have said what he said. Again - whistling past the graveyard.
Jack
DP9.02, 9.12 & 8.07
Pro Tools 10.3.10 & 11.3.1
27" iMac OSX 10.8.5 & OSX 10.9.5 3.4GHz quad i7 32 gig ram
BFD 3 and plenty more

Qapla

Angus_FX
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Postby Angus_FX » Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:13 am

@jack - you have mail.

@aahladas if you have a tight schedule on the current project, for the sake of everything good in the world do not upgrade your DAW midway through :shock:

We were led to believe that we would have the tools on a schedule that allowed us to meet Avid's commitment to the userbase. They, or possibly their friends at PACE, had to change things late in the day, so that turned out not to be the case.
-- Angus F. Hewlett - CEO - FXpansion --

Twitter | YouTube

Synth Squad | BFD Eco

jackn2mpu
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Postby jackn2mpu » Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:06 am

Angus_FX wrote:@jack - you have mail.

@aahladas if you have a tight schedule on the current project, for the sake of everything good in the world do not upgrade your DAW midway through :shock:

We were led to believe that we would have the tools on a schedule that allowed us to meet Avid's commitment to the userbase. They, or possibly their friends at PACE, had to change things late in the day, so that turned out not to be the case.
Angus:
Message received and replied to. There were a couple of typos in the message because I was rushed and am dealing with a problem neighbor and cats on her property so things have gotten real intense around here.
Jack
DP9.02, 9.12 & 8.07
Pro Tools 10.3.10 & 11.3.1
27" iMac OSX 10.8.5 & OSX 10.9.5 3.4GHz quad i7 32 gig ram
BFD 3 and plenty more

Qapla

aahladas
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Postby aahladas » Mon Jul 01, 2013 4:02 pm

Angus_FX wrote:@jack - you have mail.

@aahladas if you have a tight schedule on the current project, for the sake of everything good in the world do not upgrade your DAW midway through :shock:

We were led to believe that we would have the tools on a schedule that allowed us to meet Avid's commitment to the userbase. They, or possibly their friends at PACE, had to change things late in the day, so that turned out not to be the case.


As I said, going to PT11 (particularly 64-bit, offline bounce etc) would have been a boost for me, if I could just open PT10 sessions in PT11 and have my plug-ins work. I could stand losing a few minor ones, as long as I have Waves, Arturia and BFD2. Arturia is the only one who's released them, and there appear to be issues.

The fact remains that we were given unqualified assurances by many developers, including Fxpansion, that all would be ready. I spent my money on PT11 based on those assurances. If you say it's all Avid's fault, I'll take your word for it.

As for security, iLok is total anachronism. Waves got off of it with no problems, and replaced it with a much better system. If that's the source of the problems, it's one more reason they should abandon it.

What is really needed at this point is a single standard for plug-ins across all DAWs. I don't know how hardware manufacturers settled on MIDI way back when, but something similar needs to happen here. It's a major source of frustration for customers and a big waste of time for developers.

jackn2mpu
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Postby jackn2mpu » Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:25 pm

aahladas wrote:
Angus_FX wrote:@jack - you have mail.

@aahladas if you have a tight schedule on the current project, for the sake of everything good in the world do not upgrade your DAW midway through :shock:

We were led to believe that we would have the tools on a schedule that allowed us to meet Avid's commitment to the userbase. They, or possibly their friends at PACE, had to change things late in the day, so that turned out not to be the case.


As I said, going to PT11 (particularly 64-bit, offline bounce etc) would have been a boost for me, if I could just open PT10 sessions in PT11 and have my plug-ins work. I could stand losing a few minor ones, as long as I have Waves, Arturia and BFD2. Arturia is the only one who's released them, and there appear to be issues.

The fact remains that we were given unqualified assurances by many developers, including Fxpansion, that all would be ready. I spent my money on PT11 based on those assurances. If you say it's all Avid's fault, I'll take your word for it.

As for security, iLok is total anachronism. Waves got off of it with no problems, and replaced it with a much better system. If that's the source of the problems, it's one more reason they should abandon it.

What is really needed at this point is a single standard for plug-ins across all DAWs. I don't know how hardware manufacturers settled on MIDI way back when, but something similar needs to happen here. It's a major source of frustration for customers and a big waste of time for developers.
You'll never have one standard plugin format across all daws, particularly OSX versus Windoze. You'd have to get Apple to abandon au and Avid to abandon AAX.

You're the second one to say there are supposed issues with the Arturia AAX updates but there's nothing on their forums about it. If you could point me to where you've seen or read about this I'd appreciate it. I've had no problems so far with the updated CS80, Moog Modular and Moog Mini synths in either PT10 or PT11 demo.

Oh yeah - if you didn't know it there's been an update to PT11; it's now PT 11.0.1 and is supposed to fix a bunch of issues.
Jack
DP9.02, 9.12 & 8.07
Pro Tools 10.3.10 & 11.3.1
27" iMac OSX 10.8.5 & OSX 10.9.5 3.4GHz quad i7 32 gig ram
BFD 3 and plenty more

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guitardom
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Postby guitardom » Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:46 am

I hate hearing people having such difficulties. There is a moderately simple workaround that is cheap, just need Reaper.

I am willing to help you out with some Reaper/BFD 2 rewired to PT 11 templates. obviously they would not be exact as our variances of usage of BFD 2 kits and such, but would be pretty darn close.

I would have a Reaper session with BFD 2 inserted and routed. everything setup and rewired into PT. Then can give you another PT session to use as a template that you can use OR just import the tracks into a session.

I know this isn't optimal, but if it will help some of you get back to work, I am glad to help.

Just PM me here or email me at stevengand (at) yahoo.com

I am thinking about hosting it, but it would be better this way as I know who has it and I can help with setup variables.

guitardom
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Postby guitardom » Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:24 am

davecmcgrath wrote:I'd just like to add a note regarding my previous post. I use BFD2 and BFD ECO within protools and have really spent the time learning and enjoying their capabilities and have invested in several expansion packs. My computers are not the most powerful and I often "downsize" to use ECO within protools to minimize the load on my cpu. With the introduction of protools 11 using the new avid audio engine it takes a lot of pressure off my computer and would potentially allow me to use BFD2 more within bigger sessions. I have no desire or need to move to other virtual drum products and can happily remain in protools 10 for tracking and editing, then can bounce out tracks to disk to mix in protools 11 should I desire. My point was that I was concerned that some people are likely to consider the AAX platform race as more important than the product itself. I'm sure FXPansion are acutely aware of the pressure to release soon, but I would rather wait till the products are ready. I'm sticking with BFD and offer Angus and his team my support
Dave


You can easily render the midi tracks in PT, Through BFD and drag them in your session.

lookup export:
just select your export location
name the file prefix
select bit depth
rec enable
set export mode to host
export

now select the playback section length in pt
I set a marker at the start point of the edit selection so I know where to drag the files to
then playback the session in PT.
go to the folder where they bounced
drag them into the PT tracks bin.
I set a marker at the start point of the edit selection so I know where to drag the files to.

other than the playback time, it only takes a minute to set everything else up.

I do this all the time as it eliminates creating the aux's then routing them to tracks and setting all the busses in and out, then recording, which can take FAR to long.

Lateo
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Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:00 am

Postby Lateo » Sun Jul 07, 2013 11:22 am

Thanks everybody for the news & tips. I, too, am a BFD2 user on Pro Tools 10, and would greatly benefit from PT 11's increased RAM availability. The AAX shift is hindering almost every software house, since the plugins have to be deeply reworked or even rewritten from scratch. I think I will stick to PT 10 until the new AAX 64 version of BFD is available. But please, keep us periodically informed about your progress, because October would be a very long time to wait.

Thank you in advance.


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