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BFD3 SRC Algorithm (88.2 kHz / upsampling)

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FlakMT
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BFD3 SRC Algorithm (88.2 kHz / upsampling)

Postby FlakMT » Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:48 pm

Hey guys,

Can you give me some insight about the sample rate conversion used in BFD3 when it gets played in a 88.2 kHz environment? I am concerned about the quality.

Every other element was recorded in 88.2 kHz. That's why I want to upsample BFD3.

Now you could say just mix the drums in 44.1 and then use a high quality SRC later, but I want the plugins to benefit from the upsampling while mixing the drums. So the resampling has happen pre-mixing for me.
Another alternative would be to bounce the individual tracks and then convert them with a HQ SRC. But I'd like to change some MIDI on the fly without bouncing and repeating the whole process with every little change.

I looked for the opportunity to resample the complete BFD3 samples/kits but noticed the data is .bfdlac so I could not convert the files. This would've been the best option. Or is there a way to resample the whole library?

johnnyindia
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Postby johnnyindia » Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:43 pm

Have you compared the internal SRC of BFD3 to external HQ SRC? Wondering what you've discovered.

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Rory_FX
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Postby Rory_FX » Mon Feb 16, 2015 6:19 pm

BFD3 will run at the higher sample rate no problems. You'll also get the benefit of any effects you're using being run at 88.2KHz. Just run BFD3 as a plugin in your host at 88.2KHz and all should be rosy when you export stems.

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FlakMT
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Postby FlakMT » Wed Feb 18, 2015 7:44 pm

Well johnnyindia, yes, I did some testing. Compared the BFD3 build-in SRC to iZotope's 64-bit SRC. Primary the low end response gets lost when using BFD's on the fly algorithm. I feel like iZotope gives me 99% of the original source (I can hardly tell when A/B-ing), while BFD's gives me about 93% quality of the source material. It loses dimension/depth and "shrinks" somewhat. (As always, it could be placebo.) Sounds still OK but most of us geeks want the maximum. I mean that's why I think about 88.2kHz in the first place - these little percentages.

The system load was still manageable @ 88.2 though, so props for that.

Thanks for the reply Rory. Is there any way to convert the BFD audio files with the SRC converter of my choice before the data hits the sampler?
Last edited by FlakMT on Wed Feb 18, 2015 11:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

kenwalden
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Postby kenwalden » Wed Feb 18, 2015 9:43 pm

What were the BFD samples recorded at sample rate and bit rate wise???

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FlakMT
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Postby FlakMT » Wed Feb 18, 2015 11:23 pm

kenwalden wrote:What were the BFD samples recorded at sample rate and bit rate wise???


44.1/24 I guess. I doubt they recorded at a higher rate for later downsampling.

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SKoT_FX
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Postby SKoT_FX » Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:38 am

It's a pretty involved and well-studied resampler we're using; I can put some sine tones through and we can compare the spectra to get a definitive answer... There's a tone generator plugin within BFD for doing this kind of testing.

Otherwise your options are to track out BFD at 44.1 and then resample with the resampler of your choice.

There's no way to insert an external resampler between the BFD3 synth and mixer engine, which all run at 44.1 for bandwidth sanity (BFD has a loooooot of channels to synthesize) - this is just the nature of plugin architecture at the current time. An interesting idea though...

We'll need to check that Izotope aren't juicing up the bass as well... :)
SKoT McDonald
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FlakMT
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Postby FlakMT » Thu Feb 19, 2015 8:46 pm

That's the insight I was hoping for, nice.

http://src.infinitewave.ca/ is a simple way to compare SRCs and it helped me find iZotope's SRC. But the resampler you use is definitely better than the regular Cubase one, that's for sure.

SKoT_FX wrote: There's a tone generator plugin within BFD for doing this kind of testing.


I have to look into that as well. You sharing the results would be appreciated though!

Also: Having a 88.2 kHz based sampler version with native 88.2 kHz samples at some point in time would be huge.


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