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djelvis
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multi-channel issue logic 8

Postby djelvis » Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:11 am

how can i get the guru to be read as a multichannel instrument in logic 8 pro. it seems to not be reading it

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rob_fx (ex-FX)
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Postby rob_fx (ex-FX) » Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:44 pm

Hello there.

Apple have revised the AU spec again for Logic 8, and the change has broken most 3rd party multi-out plug-ins. We will be providing patches for all our affected products as soon as we can. Sorry for any inconvenience.

Regards,
Rob.
"I was great engineer once, but then I took an arrow to the knee..."

bluseky
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Postby bluseky » Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:27 pm

As a Mac user, and long time Apple fan, I'm beginning to get really annoyed at Apples behavior. i just can't witch to PC's though, no matter how hard I try.

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rob_fx (ex-FX)
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Postby rob_fx (ex-FX) » Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:17 pm

"Better the devil you know".
"I was great engineer once, but then I took an arrow to the knee..."

djelvis
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Postby djelvis » Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:44 am

I really hope this is fixed quick. Battery 3 works fine. all of my other mutli channel output plugins work perfectly. It would seem to me that this is a fxpansion thing only. this is seriously annoying and forcing me to stop using guru. hopefully they'll fix it before i become accustomed to battery.

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rob_fx (ex-FX)
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Postby rob_fx (ex-FX) » Sun Sep 23, 2007 10:22 am

I'm sorry for your frustrations, but I can assure it is not just an "FXpansion thing". I have a long list of other 3rd party multi-out plug-ins that don't work either. The community is all pitching in to get this resolved, so please give us the chance to correct it. It requires a complete rework of our interface - not a job to be taken lightly.

I'm amazed that Stylus RMX already has a fix in place, although I've yet to test it. So far, I don't know of anyone else who's managed to correct the issue - hopefully this will give idea of the gravity of the situation.
"I was great engineer once, but then I took an arrow to the knee..."

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AshleySmith08
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Postby AshleySmith08 » Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:31 pm

Rob, could you share a list of other plugs that aren't working please :wink:

zebastian21
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Postby zebastian21 » Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:34 pm

rob_fx wrote:Hello there.

Apple have revised the AU spec again for Logic 8, and the change has broken most 3rd party multi-out plug-ins. We will be providing patches for all our affected products as soon as we can. Sorry for any inconvenience.

Regards,
Rob.


Its very strange that I opened an old project from LP7 where I had Guru multitimbral and multiout configured....The project opened Guru perfectly multi out, but when I start a project from scratch with LP8 I only see Stereo Guru. :roll:

djelvis
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Postby djelvis » Mon Sep 24, 2007 1:38 am

I love love the tools within guru and find nothing as intuitive or flexible. i wish i could speak to the engineers directly to help them understand this is a high priority issue because without multi output capabilities i cannot use it to create the soundscapes needed. I'm currently working on scores for TV and I feel handicapped without this. FXPansion PLZ hurry. BTW 1.5 is the shit.

f.x.randomiz
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Postby f.x.randomiz » Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:41 am


There's a very simple workaround:

Save a Channel Strip Setting with GURU's multi out version in Logic 7.
Whenever you need GURU in multi out mode in Logic 8, all you need to do is recall that Channel Strip Setting.


f.x.randomiz
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Postby f.x.randomiz » Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:03 am

zebastian21 wrote:Its very strange that I opened an old project from LP7 where I had Guru multitimbral and multiout configured....The project opened Guru perfectly multi out, but when I start a project from scratch with LP8 I only see Stereo Guru. :roll:

This is because Logic 8 now supports 5.1 surround plugins. When the plugin doesn't specify exactly if it is a multi out plugin or a surround plugin, Logic 8 ignores the "I could be multi out but I could as well be surround" version of the plugin.

Now when you load a Logic 7 song in Logic 8, the program takes for granted that it is the multi out version, because you couldn't use surround versions in Logic 7 anyway. And that's why it also works with Channel Strip Settings saved in Logic 7 (see previous post).

Must have been in the AU specs for quite some time, since even old Absynth3, which was one of the first synths that supported 5.1, appears as a 5.1 surround version in the plugin menu. Others list mono, stereo, 5.1 and several multi out versions in the menu.


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rob_fx (ex-FX)
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Postby rob_fx (ex-FX) » Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:08 am

f.x.randomiz wrote:There's a very simple workaround:

Save a Channel Strip Setting with GURU's multi out version in Logic 7.
Whenever you need GURU in multi out mode in Logic 8, all you need to do is recall that Channel Strip Setting.



Hmm, I'll try that out today - could be a good news item if I can replicate it.

Surround-sound plug-in support has been in the AU spec from day one (even though Logic didn't support it), inherited in fact from the output playback layouts defined in CoreAudio (Mono, Stereo, 5.1, 6.0, 6.1, 4/6/8 symmetric and so on). The problem is, Guru's multi-outputs are not for a surround layout, they are 1 stereo + several AUX channels. Presently Guru hands a single bus of interleaved channels to the host. Logic 8 simplying reads the first one or two and ignores the rest. Apparently if we are going to have multi AUX outputs in our plug-ins, we need to put each AUX channel in its own output bus, which I believe Native Instruments have been doing all along. It's a bit of a headache, since we support several plug-in formats and this multi-bus method conflicts completely with how VST and RTAS do it.
"I was great engineer once, but then I took an arrow to the knee..."

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rob_fx (ex-FX)
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Postby rob_fx (ex-FX) » Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:32 am

djelvis wrote:i wish i could speak to the engineers directly to help them understand this is a high priority issue because without multi output capabilities i cannot use it to create the soundscapes needed.


Dude, you are talking to the engineers directly. There are only six of us - and we read and respond to the forums daily. Guru, and the AU interface, is presently Angus's responsibility - so when he gets back from his honeymoon he will mission it with all his heart. Very bad timing, but then if Apple had release the developer preview of Logic 8 BEFORE it went public (the general definition of a preview I believe), Angus would have fixed it before he got married.

I won't tell you what the atmosphere in the office was like when we realized what Apple had done. Needless to say, I will be "having words" with the Logic team when I get my hands on them.
"I was great engineer once, but then I took an arrow to the knee..."

f.x.randomiz
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Postby f.x.randomiz » Mon Sep 24, 2007 1:20 pm

rob_fx wrote:
f.x.randomiz wrote:There's a very simple workaround:

Save a Channel Strip Setting with GURU's multi out version in Logic 7.
Whenever you need GURU in multi out mode in Logic 8, all you need to do is recall that Channel Strip Setting.



Hmm, I'll try that out today - could be a good news item if I can replicate it.



I must add that I am using a PPC Mac (G5 Quad). Since I read on the BFD forum that the "load a Logic7 song" method works for people on PPC Macs, but seems to be not so hassle free for people on Intel Macs in case of BFD, this may be true for the "load Channel Strip" method and for GURU as well.


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rob_fx (ex-FX)
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Postby rob_fx (ex-FX) » Mon Sep 24, 2007 1:54 pm

andywright67 wrote:Rob, could you share a list of other plugs that aren't working please :wink:


As of 24/09/2007

Multi-out plug-ins reported to be stereo-only in Logic 8.0:

FXpansion BFD
FXpansion Guru
SonicCharge microTonic
AudioRealism ADM
Spectrasonics Stylus RMX (fix now available for download)
Plogue Bidule AU plug-in (5.1 surround output is available though)
Toontrack DFH Superior
XLN Addictive Drums
IK Sampletank XL 2.5
Access Virus Powercore

Some plug-ins may still operate in multi out modes on PPC macs using a suitable workaround.
"I was great engineer once, but then I took an arrow to the knee..."


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